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User talk:Alexander Korolev/Archive

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Please feel free to delete this message from your user-talk page after viewing... Ashcraft - (talk) 18:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Russian CreationWiki

Alexander: if you are serious about creating a Russian CreationWiki, then the administration will certainly consider a proposal to create one.

Understand this: CreationWiki presently exists as a primary site in English, a "pooled" images-only site, and seven "second-language" sites. The languages (in addition to English) currently represented are German, Spanish, French, Hebrew, Korean, Polish, and Chinese.

The administration would be glad to add Russian. But we would require certain things:

  1. Are you willing to begin translating existing CreationWiki content into Russian? How many articles per month could you translate?
  2. Would you help us in setting up some Russian language-specific system messages, namespace designators, and even extension scripts? This work wouldn't be very burdensome--I would need to know how to translate words like "Talk" and "Essay" and "Portal" into Russian, along with the names of the months of the year, and a few other little things. (I have written a custom script for one of our extensions.) With regard to the word "Portal," be sure to visit some of our Portals here on the English site (for example, Portal:Astronomy) to understand what I mean by that term. Also, try reading on of my essays (Essay:A Godly Museum of Natural History) to know what I mean by that word.
  3. In setting up the Main Page, or however it's called in Russian, the administration must reserve to itself the power to make changes directly affecting the layout of the Main Page. Naturally you and I would need to cooperate on things like appropriate Russian words for things. I also need a complete Russian translation of the phrase "CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science" so that Mr. Ashcraft can create a Russian-language logo and I can give the site a proper Russian name and title phrase.

In sum: a Russian site would be a lot of hard work, both for the administration and for you. If you are willing to undertake this project, then I am willing to present a proposal to Mr. Ashcraft for the installation of a Russian site--with the clear understanding that you would begin to populate it at once. We would be interested in two things:

  1. Translation of existing CreationWiki content into Russian, beginning with the articles on "Creation" and "Creationism." As you translate, naturally certain articles will become "wanted." (See Special:Wantedpages to see what I'm talking about). That special page could be your guide on what to translate next, or you can feel free to translate any other article that you feel comfortable and/or enthusiastic about translating. When you do translate an article, we ask that you place appropriate language-specific interwiki links from the Russian article to the English article, and from the English to the Russian. For example, [[en:Creation]] Always ask for my help if you do not understand this.
  2. Original content for the Russian site, and translations of that content into English or any of the other languages I mentioned in which you have facility.

You have placed a great deal of work in trying to simulate a Russian CreationWiki here on the English site. From my examination of that work, I think you would be capable of editing a true Russian-language wiki.

You may reply on my Talk page. I will "watch" this Talk page temporarily. If, after reading the above, you still want to undertake such a project, I will send a message to Mr. Ashcraft. Perhaps we will set up a temporary project page specifically for discussion of a Russian project.

In Christ,

TemlakosTalk 14:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC) Sysop

Answer to "Russian CreationWiki"

Hello Temlakos,

I accept your suggestion.

I'm willing to help this ministry, but I'm not sure that it will be possible to me be active permanently and very often (more than 2-3 times in a week). It is connected with my work, my family and with other ministry in our church. I will write some new articles, translate some material from the English base and try to engage new Russians users. I will try to make some work for it from time to time. In the startup of Russian Site, I can help more actively.

Regarding your suggestions, first of all, please provide the answer for this question:

The strict sense of therm "CreationWiki" then it will be translated to the Russian is "Creation of Wiki", so it is unacceptably.
Which meaning of site name is more preferable: "Wiki of Creation", the meaning is the same as "Chronicle of Creation" or "News of Creation", "Archive of Creation", in Russian it will be " ВикиТворения " (the variant " ВикиСотворения")
- or -
"CreationWiki", as personal name (without grammatical agreement) as the same name "WikiCreation", in Russian it will be " ВикиТворение " (" ВикиСотворение ").

In my opinion the best will be " ВикиТворения ". Can we change it in the future, if some users will suggest it ?

The word "Creation" has some similar meanings in Russian:

  • The process, "man's creation", "creation of man" or "creation of the world" - " Создание " or " Сотворение " (the verb) or " Творение " (the verb)
  • The the whole creation - " Творение " (the noun)

The trouble is in the different grammatical cases in English and in Russian. And of course, it will be different meanings. I think that the word " Творение " will be the best.

The phrase "CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science" may translated as " ВикиТворения, энциклопедия науки о сотворении ".

Most of systems names of MediaWiki engine are translated to the russian by default, so I see it in Russian. Also, please remember, I use Russian Wikipedia, where most wiki-technologies (such portal) is usign actively. Also I am started up and supported 2 projects on MediaWiki (I am not "the best professional", but not newbie). About translating the page "Main page", will be translated as " Заглавная страница " (i don't understand, why it is not translated by default). Portal is " Портал " and Subject portals is " Тематические порталы ". Help wanted is " Требуется помощь " and Discussion (in main menu, after Community) is " Обсуждение ". The best translating of Media pool is "Медиа архив".

My suggestion for essay is " очерк ". Essays is " Очерки ".

I can translate all untranslated things in Russian version of site, please provide words or php files with untranslated points.

With love in Christ, soul brother --Alexander Korolev 19:55, 21 July 2008 (UTC) :-)

P.S. Please note me about your answer in my "User Talk" page. Thank you in advance.

Further answer

Thank you very much for your answer. And also for the translations thus far.

To answer your immediate question: I think that the site name ВикиТворение would be preferable. That means that I accept the second meaning that you proposed, i.e. "WikiCreation" as a "personal" or highly specific name.

Thank you for reminding me about the Russian Wikipedia.

I read your article, Ошибки хирургов. As near as I can translate that into English, I read that as "errors of the surgeons." If I may suggest, that is the sort of thing that belongs in the essay or очерк namespace. The reason is that it represents a general opinion.

I will propose to Mr. Ashcraft the creation of a Russian site. Two or three submissions in a week should allow the site to grow. As I said, you and I will work together quite closely. I will start to make my preparations at once, so that when Mr. Ashcraft gives his clearance, I can proceed.

You stated above that you have managed MediaWiki projects before. That is good. You and I should be able to communicate on a high technical level.

I have some more immediate translation and scholarly questions for you:

  1. What are the Russian words for "article" and "picture"? Another English word for "picture" is "image." Also, what is the Russian word for "featured," as in "featured article" or "featured picture"? Other English words that convey the meaning of "feature" and "featured" are promotion/promoted, or presentation/presented. (I recommend that you translate the English articles "Creation" and "Bible" first, so that you will have two articles to promote on the Russian site. You can then promote other translated articles as you see fit.
  2. What is the favorite Russian word for the English concept of "news" or "newspaper" or "newsletter"? I believe it is transliterated "Gazeta" in the English alphabet. You might want to translate the code of Template:News into Russian and then create your own gazette, or whatever you wish to call it. We also have the templates Template:Featured article and Template:Featured picture. These allow you to promote articles and pictures whenever you choose, without having to alter the title-page layout. I encourage you to translate the code for both of these. For the pictures, I recommend that you browse the media archive, choose the two pictures that you like best of all, find out what articles those pictures appear in, select one article for each picture to translate, and then prepare you own version of Template:Featured picture to promote those pictures and their associated articles.
  3. I must ask you to leave the title-page layout in my hands, because I am an administrator and you are not—though a consistent record of excellent submissions of articles and essays would enable me to recommend you for promotion. But at least I can enable you to handle some aspects of site promotion without your having to be an administrator.
  4. We use the site <http://www.biblegateway.com> to support all our Bible references. That site has two versions of the Bible in Russian. They are called Russian Synodal Version and Slovo Zhizny. Would either one be preferable to the other? Would you use both, and if so, would you necessarily use one more than the other? If so, which? I ask this because I wrote two templates: Template:Bible ref and Template:Bible quote that are designed to insert biblical references and to provide instant external links to the relevant chapters (or verses of chapters) in any of a number of versions of the Bible in various languages, including Russian. I would like to translate that into Russian—or perhaps you can help with this.
  5. What is the Russian word for "quotation," meaning a citation of another's words? What are the punctuation marks commonly used to mark off directly quoted text? We have templates called Template:Quote and Template:Cquote that I would like to see translated into Russian for use in Russian articles.
  6. What are the Russian words for the following language names: German, English, French, Hebrew, Korean, Polish, and Chinese?
  7. How do you say in Russian the names of the months of the Gregorian and Julian calendars: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December?
  8. How do you say in Russian the names of the months of the modern Jewish calendar: Tishrei, Cheshvan, Kislev, Teveth, Shevat, Adar, Veadar, Nisan, Iyar, Sivan, Tammuz, Av, Elul?
  9. How do you say in Russian the following names used in the very ancient Hebrew calendar: Abib (or Aviv), Zif, Eitanim, and Bul? Or is transliteration into Cyrillic all that is required?

I will also send you an e-mail with an attached php file titled SMW_LanguageRu.php, to see whether you agree or disagree with certain translated terms.

That is all for now, but as we proceed further, I will ask your help in translating certain of our custom MediaWiki system messages from English into Russian. These include the messages used to remind people that they must request accounts in order to join.

Sincerely, --TemlakosTalk 00:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


RE: Further answer

Yes, the article (статья) Ошибки хирургов it is essay (очерк) :-) But not my... it is copy. Am I right with renaming?

  1. About Online Bible, I usually use www.JesusChrist.ru/bible/, it is inter-denomination Christian site, but some orthodox or other Christian can be against in the future. My suggestion is http://www.russianbible.net it is without any other information, only Synodal version (the Best Russian Translating of Bible, beyond all doubt). Mentioned site has handy links to verses of Holy Writ, e.g. <a href="http://www.russianbible.net/Joh-3.html#c16">John 3:16</a>. If the suggested (by you) site has Synodal Text - it is great with the same scheme - it will be great.
  2. Quotation is Цитирование (Citirovanie :-) ) The symbols of quotation is the same as on english. For text symbol « and » will be the best. Start of quotation may be "Цитата" and end of quotation may be "Конец цитаты". But... In the Russian Wikipedia we usually use template, written by users, can I copy it from Wikipedia?
  3. Other translations. Grammatical case and gender of word, often make the difference in the ending of word. In different place of the phrases uses different grammatical cases).
    So, article is статья, articles is статьи, about article - о статье, e.t.c
    • Picture and image - изображение
    • The best equivalent of featured, I suggest from Wikipedia: Избранный boy, Избранная girl, Избранное cloud (in russian it is neuter), Избранные articles.
    • News - Новости
    • Newspaper - Газета
    • Letter (Newsletter) - Письмо (информационное письмо or уведомление, but письмо is the best)
  4. Name of language, it is adjective:
    • German - Немецкий
    • English - Английский (Английская girl, Английский boy, Английское cloud (in Russian it is neuter), about Английском boy, to Английскому boy, to Английской girl)
    • French - Французкий
    • Hebrew - Еврейский
    • Korean - Корейский
    • Polish - Польский (Польская girl, Польский boy, Польское cloud (in Russian it is neuter), about Польском boy, to Польскому boy, to Польской girl)
    • Chinese - Китайский

As you can see, the endings of words are the difference -кий in these adjectives changes by other endings. It is good that in these adjectives, all endings the same in the all instances (it is not right for all words and adjectives). Name of months is personal names. Note, that in the middle of phrase, the name of month will not start with upper-case, e.g. I was born on 16th декабря (of December).

    • January - Январь (the adjectives are: Январская, Январский, Январское, Январском, e.t.c, but the 1th января, the 23th января)
    • February - Февраль (the adjectives are: Февральская, Февральский, Февральское, Февральском, e.t.c)
    • March - Март (Мартовская, Мартовский, Мартвоское, Мартовском... but the first марта, the 8th марта)
    • April - Апрель (Апрельская, Апрельский, Апрельское, Апрельском ... the first апреля )
    • May - Май (Майская ... but the first мая )
    • June - Июнь (Июньская ... the first июня )
    • July - Июль (Июльская ... the first июля )
    • August - Август (Августовская ... the first августа)
    • September - Сентрябрь (Сентябрьская ... the first сентрября)
    • October - Октябрь (Октябрьская ... the first октября)
    • November - Ноябрь (Ноябрьская ... the first ноября)
    • December - Декабрь (Декабрьская ... the first декабря)
    1. The translation of some ancient months and words (for other, please provide the verses of Text)
  • Tishrei - ?
  • Cheshvan - ?
  • Kislev - Кислев
  • Teveth - Тебеф
  • Shevat - ?
  • Adar - Адар
  • Veadar -  ?
  • Nisan - Нисан
  • Iyar - ?
  • Sivan - Сиван
  • Tammuz - Таммуз
  • Av - Ав
  • Elul - Елул
  • Abib (or Aviv) - Авив
  • Zif - Зиф
  • Eitanim - ?
  • Bul - Бул

Please remember, most of words was without all grammatical cases, without all plural forms and without all genders of words... :-( About English and foreign words - all of them can be translated or transliterated to Russian. English alphabet is exclusion, Russian is preferable. God bless you! --Alexander Korolev 01:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Approved

Mr. Ashcraft has given his approval. His only change is that the Russian site name be translated with the "Wiki" name after the word for "Creation," to stay consistent with the names of the other sites.

You have already provided some text that I can use to build the Main Page.

Regarding that essay: Please do not copy anything word-for-word from another site to this one. The submission of any material to our site implies your promise that you wrote the material yourself, or that the material you copied is from the public domain.

We allow users to copy template code from Wikipedia and adapt it for our purposes. We do not allow users to copy article text from Wikipedia.

We allow users to copy images from Wikimedia Commons, but only if those images are in the public domain or otherwise available for sharing without restriction of any kind. But we much prefer that you find a site other than Wikimedia Commons to take an image from.

We ask that you upload any new images to the Media Archive ("Media Pool") Images in the Media Archive are available to all sites. Images uploaded to the Russian site only would not be available for use on another site. I will configure the Russian site so that requests for upload will direct you automatically to the Media Archive.

If you translate an article on the English site, only to find that images will not display, then those images were probably loaded to the English site before we established our shared archive. Please notify me at once, and I will transfer those images to the media archive. I will also removed them from the English site.

If you have any difficulty with editing, leave me a message. You may reach me on my Talk page on the English site, of course. I also intend to create user and user talk pages on the Russian site. You may reach me on any of my Talk pages on any of the sites, including the Media Archive.

The installation will proceed either tomorrow or the next day. Mr. Ashcraft will shortly create a logo for us, and I need to write some scripts to build the site quickly and efficiently.

In Christ,

TemlakosTalk 02:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


RE: Approved

So, if name will be the same as the English, the best way is using English name "CreationWiki", because, name "ТворениеВики" has meaning "Creation of Wiki". Please note that "ВикиТворения" or "ВикиСотворения" (Wiki of Creation) is much better.

Ok, I will not use word-for-word copy of the other recourses without open license. Please specify the meaning "public domain" (regarding licenses). And about Wikipedia, can I use some part of original text from article of Wikipedia? If not, why?

My suggestion is make the table for translating, for example

Word Translating (part of speech, gender) Main forms of the word Commentary
Article Статья (count noun, feminine)
  • use this статью (Use what?)
  • to статье (to Whom?)
  • with статьей (with Whom?)
  • without статьи (Without whom?)
  • by статьей {Usign by whom?}
  • about статье (About whom?)
  • the adjective:
    • male: статейный (boy)
    • female: статейная (girl)
    • neuter: статейное (сloud)
    • plural: статейные (cats)
Notes, questions and answers

Yours sincerely, Alexander Korolev 03:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Creationwiki russian medium.png

Here's the Russian logo. It and the smaller version can be downloaded from the promotion page.

--Ashcraft - (talk) 03:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Please note, what word Вики, will be better in the up of Творения. Alexander Korolev
I read the discussion before making the logo, but I think its better to duplicate the sitename as closely as possible, rather than translate it to a more grammatically correct description. In addition, its a "Creation" site - the fact that its a Wiki is secondary and irrelevant in comparison. --Ashcraft - (talk) 03:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Dear Chris, thank you for your answer. Right now the sitename on the logo, seems as not Russian (so with accent). :-) My suggestions are:
  • place the word Вики on the top
  • make logo with only word Сотворение with word Вики in the bottom of Logo: вики энциклопедия науки о сотворении, and of course make the site name as only Сотворение (it will be naturally)
  • make logo without word Вики (may be)
So, if not, let not. Right now it is not the worst variant.
Alexander Korolev 03:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)