The Creation Wiki is made available by the NW Creation Network
Watch monthly live webcast - Like us on Facebook - Subscribe on YouTube

Anticreationist forum debate tactics

From CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science
Jump to: navigation, search

Tag teaming

In forums where a bunch of anticreationists can gather, and pretty much do as they please, they will tag team a creationist while debating him (have seen tag teaming as much as 10-1).

Alteratively, two anticreationists will join at about the same time. They will both select a world view that they feel is true (Christianity) in hopes the mods and admins will be more lenient on them as they debate. Their main goal is to work as a team. One will test the faith of the members of the forum, while the other anticreationist (the team member) will back his posts up by agreeing with them. It can always be told who they are because: they are usually online at the same time, usually post in each other's threads, and never post in the regular Christian sections (only the creation vs evolution section).

Bait threads

This is to draw creationists in on subjects the anticreationist happens to be well versed on. Once the thread is open, they already have their ready made answers at hand, and are waiting for their first victim. They will invite a couple of friends that think like they do to help out in keeping the thread under their control as the debate progresses. Some bait threads are so bad they pounce on the first creationist poster like a pack of wolves.

Entertaining the lurkers

Lurkers are those who have been invited to watch the spectacle that will be displayed by the other anticreationists. The lurkers very seldom join the forum. They just sit in the background and relay messages via messenger to the ones who are posting, giving them answers and ideas on what to say. You can always tell when a game is about to begin when the visitor count suddenly jumps up. A few anticreationists will also show up about the same time.

The lurkers and the posting anticreationist work as a team. This is why they often come up with good quick answers. Between the lurkers communicating with the anticreationist poster, you are probably debating 10 or more people at one time, but one is responding for all of them. About the only time some of the lurkers will join is when the anticreationist poster is not doing so well in debating the creationist. They join because in their minds a creationist can never out do an evolutionist. They will even lie to make sure of that.

Cloak and dagger

Many anticreationists will join under false world views, in which they will claim to be a Christian, but yet be an atheist. As they pose as a Christian they will try and stay just under the radar of the mods and admins as they attack the Christian faith every which way that they can. Their main target is usually creation views. Their main hate is the "literal word of God". So the main group they set their sights on are the YEC believers.

Because they believe what they believe (evolution) and their hate can only be bottled up for so long before it comes out, they will expose themselves by what they say. It is good to set the edit time on new members to a short time (15 minutes). In this way they cannot take back what they have said when they slip up. This exposes them more quickly so that the forum admins can boot them.

They fear that the tenants of intelligent design and the creationists (people I hate as much as they do) will rejoice and quote them as being on their side.

Piattelli-Palmarini: Ostracism W/out Nat Selection [[1]] [[2]] [[3]] (quoted May 16, 2008 and maybe subject to change or removal in the future)

"How does one develop hatred for those he has never met and knows nothing about other than the singular belief they hold?" [[4]]

I did not say that

When a current live debate (both parties are online) is going on, the anticreationist likes to say things to make the creationist mad (things bad enough to get banned over). As long as the mods are not around to see it, the anticreationist can change his words after the creationist responds to them and then go on to claim he never said that. This is why it is important to quote the anticreationist comments in the creationist post. He can edit and change his own posts, but he cannot change or edit yours. Quoting is like taking a snap shot of what was said, so if he claims he did not say it, you will have evidence that he did.

How quick can I get banned

This is a forum test game to see if the written rules are being enforced and to see how far they can go before the mods and admins come after them. This will happen at new Christian forums, forums that debate creation vs. evolution, and forums that just started a section on creation vs. evolution.

If the forum is lax in enforcing its rules, the "how quick I can get banned game" will show just how lax they are. Once it is determined by the anticreationists that the forum is workable in their favor, many anticreationists will join with the sole purpose of the destruction of that forum ministry. The tactics and methods listed on this page will be used to try and put the forum in total confusion, as well as to try and get every Christian on that forum to compromise.

I'm going to spam your e-mail

When debating anticreationists, if good enough at it to make them mad. They will call upon one of their e-mail spammer friends to spam your e-mail. This is why it is important to have more than one e-mail address for use. One for joining forums and one for personal use. Or just choose to not display your e-mail address in your forum profile. If you are joining a atheist-evolutionist website, where they are the mods and admins, it is best never to use your personal e-mail address because in their mod and admin control panel they can see your e-mail whether you hide it or not. Just go to yahoo, or google and sign up to use their e-mail for that purpose.

The way to tell if you are being spammed by a anticreationist spammer is that their spam mail always makes no sense. They use paragraphs from books to fill text space in the e-mail. There is never a contact address, nor a link. Real spam always has something to sell. Always have links or e-mail addresses to respond to.

The one up game

This is where the anticreation is actually losing the debate; or he or she finds this is the only way to win the debate (even though most E vs. C debates are not winnable by either side). The one up game is like the child game often played by children. One where each side says something to down the other side. Like a mocking competition.

For example, my mocking of what you believe is better than your mocking of what I believe. It really has nothing to do with the debate, it just shows the frustration of both sides. It is easy to get caught up in, but is best to avoid.

The one up game usually consists of untrue snide remarks either made on a personal bases (about the person), or about what they believe, or a general categorization that mocks that person. The untrue remarks prove that what the anticreationist believe is based on a lie, because they have to use a lie in order to defend it. The one up game gives that lie momentum. A lie actually has to gain momentum, and keep that momentum in order to work. It is a show of weakness during a debate when they basically cannot compete on the same level anymore.

Imply what was not meant or said

To keep a creationist from making a point that the evolutionist cannot refute. The anticreationist will often resort to "implying" that the creationist said some thing that was not said. And then harp on it to throw off the point that was made by the creationist. To go around this one, the creationist just needs to ask the anticreationist for the post in which their implication about what was said, can be confirmed. When the post cannot be supplied, point this out, and move the thread forward in subject being debated.

AKA, inside the subject derail of thread

Without changing the subject of thread, anticreationists try and derail the thread from within the subject being debated. And even though the anticreationists will claim to be smarter, and more educated than the creationist. They will constantly claim to "not" understand what creationist is saying. In this way, the thread gets stuck in the mud trying to make one point, and all the other points are soon forgotten (this is the anticreationist goal). And cannot move forward. To get around this, after explaining it at least twice. Tell the anticreationist that it's not the creationist's fault that their education does not allow them to see what they see. And that the creationist explanation most be beyond their comprehension.

Loss of Faith

The link below is an example of a member of a well known Christian forum, losing their faith in the literal word of God.

Christian Forums [5] has a thread that was edited to take out all Christian responses that were warnings to the one who renounced his faith. All non-believer posts that were mocking those who were concerned about the member losing his faith were also edited. Remember, this is all done on a supposed Christian ministry forum and proves that what something looks like on the outside, has nothing to do with what is on the inside. And these fake Christian blogs and forums are popping up all over the net.

Notice that not only did he renounce YEC (Young Earth Creation) and the literal word of God, but he also became an "X-Christian" (listed on the top left side of their post). Notice that he also now considers himself a free thinker (an anticreationist's trade mark). This is an example of why a Christian forum should never allow anticreationists to speak too freely, or at least they should allow creationists the same freedom of reply rather than kneecapping their own side, in the name of "Christian love" of course, if the creationists follow the biblical challenge-riposte method. Some antitheistic anticreationists will claim that a believer can believe in evolution and God (theistic evolution) at the same time, but in practice the "theism" is for all practical purposes no different from atheism when it comes to Earth history. Also notice how well prepared his renunciation of YEC was, presumably done with the help of other anticreationists. This was also an attempt to weaken the faith of more people on that forum, and to drag them in the same direction in which this person has gone.

False worldviews

Most anticreationists are not well versed in biblical theology and therefore avoid debates that concern this. They hate the Word of God, so most will refuse to use the Word of God to make their point. They will either not use Bible verses at all, or very little. When they do use Bible verses they usually take literal interpretations of scripture and twist the truth in order to support their view.

The anticreationists basically stay in the creation and/or evolution sections of a forum and very seldom post anywhere else in the forum. Anticreationists always have to be right, and will debate and argue until the other side either quits posting or concedes. They always have to get the last word. Even if they have to pm, or e-mail someone to do it.

Anticreationists will also single out the members that are the most damaging (get in their way) to the goal they want to achieve at the forum they wish to destroy. They will stalk and hound these members. They will always attack the threads they start and, if allowed, make snide remarks about them. What they want is to make the member either leave or concede.

The anticreationists will always defend evolution. Just start a thread against it and see how quickly they all join in. They all will work as a team to support each other as the thread goes on.

Using other religions

Currently some anticreationists are experimenting with false world view such as being Islamic. They will claim to hold some type of creation belief through that religion. But when the debate on evolution gets hot and heavy, they will expose themselves as they do what comes naturally to them. Which is to defend evolution. Whenever a supposedly religious person converts his view to evolution in one post, 99% of the time it's a member parading under a false world view.

The reason the anticreationists are using the Islamic world view, claiming that that is what they believe, is because they know that most people know very little about that religion, and would walk on eggshells as they debate them. So they know that with this view, they can play games with the Christians on that forum. The problem is that most Islamic people dislike Christians so much that they don't like talking or debating with them. So there is more than a 90% chance that the the claimed Islamic belief is false. Hinduism falls into the same category.

Both Islamic and Hindu religionists have been known to kill Christians (another reason the anticreatnioist like to use these worldviews) just for what they believe. So why would they debate them? They also believe that both Christians and Jews were bred from animals [6]. One would have to presume that the idea formed from Darwinian evolutionary thinking.

Evolution got inserted into the Islamic religion through Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini. Husseini met with Hitler on several occasions [7], and was fascinated with Hitler's idea: "The final solution for the Jewish problem" [8]. Husseini imported Nazi influence (which included evolutionary views) into Palestine and used Nazi funds to finance his terrorist activities. He openly supported Hitler and Mussolini and led a revolt against the British in 1936-1939. He was forced to flee to Iraq where he cooperated with the Nazis in a failed coup attempt against the British. He then fled to Germany where, in November of 1941, he was greeted with open arms by Hitler himself.

Deception

The basic rule of thumb is: never trust what they say, because the anticreationists' motive is almost always to destroy one's faith in God and His creation (more than 90% of the time). And this motive is in everything they say and do. Deceptions are an obsession to them because they basically have no moral code when it comes to their beloved theory of evolution; it must always "look" correct.

Defense of peers

Anticreationists are very loyal to their cause, and their peers. They can never speak an outright unkind word about an action, or words spoken. Richard Dawkins often refers to all Christians as a virus on the human population (society). "A virus" is a categorisation much like Hitler's categorisation of the Jews during the Holocaust. Just make people believe that someone among them is less then human, and soon, in their minds, they actually become that. Ask a anticreationist what he or she thinks of Dawkins' making comments like that, and they almost always defend it. Or if they happen to oppose it, it is a very weak opposition that would almost sound apologetic to Dawkins.

The Rational Response Squad [9] hates all Christians with what could be called passion. They do so many things to make more people hate Christians, and their site reads like a cybernetic war zone. Yet whenever critics ask anticreationists whether they condone their actions, words spoken (such as eliminating Christians in 10 years [10]). They always defend such rhetoric from this and similar sites.

Elimination (extermination) of what is considered a lower race of man is stated by both Darwin, and Hitler.

At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace, the savage races throughout the world. (Charles Darwin. The Decent of Man Chapter 3)

Anticreationists' excuse for what Darwin said here is that "race" was a reference to animals, even though animals are never mentioned. And it is doubtful that Darwin wanted man to exterminate all lower animals. Nor was this needed in order for man to survive. Besides, animals are part of our food source. To exterminate them would more than likely kill us through starvation. So this attempt to cover up Darwin's racist views is most laughable.

I have the right to exterminate an inferior race that breed like the vermin. (Adolf Hitler, Creation magazine vol 18, #1 page 9)

Because use of the word race can be considered racism, it is not politically correct any more to categorise human beings by race. So Dawkins found a way to get around this by categorising humans who do not think like him as a "virus" (lower undeveloped life form) instead. Both imply that this categorisation is to make one group less than human in the minds of those who do not think as they do.

Rejecting religion

The only time religion is accepted to any degree by an anticreationist is when theistic evolution is what is being talked about. The anticreationist knows that what is "seen" is more of a draw than what takes "faith" to believe. They get a Christian to compromise his or her faith and allow evolution to dictate truth at some level, which will only lead to the believer's foundation of faith in God to be weakened. This is why they will push so hard to try and get theistic evolution to be accepted in a Christian forum. Evolution is the direct opposite of creation, and will challenge the Christian faith at every turn.

See Arguments against theistic evolution for more details.

False Identity

Covert ops (that's what they call it) is when people like to use special usernames. avatars, and quotes in their forum signatures, as secret identity to others in their group. The names used are words not commonly found in the English language. They will take unusual words, or names from science, movies that deal with magic, video games that deal with magic, Satanic words, etc. They will also do the same thing with their e-mail addresses. These words can be entered into a search engine and be discovered for their meaning. You can catch many covert members hiding this way. But this is not a absolute evidence to ban. But it is a good reason to watch them from that point forward. And it is never best to let on that you suspect them, or how you found them.

They also like to take more obvious user names and add a few letters to throw off what the real word is. Like adding "ois" to the ending of a word. Or adding a few letters to the beginning of a word. Word games are usually a speciality of those who are caught in in Satanic stuff. They will even spell words backwards, which is a form of backmasking (Satanist tactic). So upon doing word searches on unusual user names, you have to play with the name a little to figure out if it's just a random bunch of letters, which most people don't do. Or something with a hidden meaning.

The main draw of covert ops is being able to hide their identity, and play a real life role as someone they are not. And being able to continue doing it on a everyday basis. This is why they will be on the forum practically every day. It is a role playing game they are addicted to. And everyday they get away with it, is another day they laugh at the Christians, who in their minds, are too stupid to figure it out.

An avatar is a little picture under a username within a forum to help identify that person. The avatar issue is where a forum member, who is masquerading under a false worldview will use an avatar that has symbols or words that link them to atheism, satanism, or evolution. The name Satan, or Satanic symbols can be entered into a search engine, in the image section, in which will give a general idea of the different pictures or symbols that will be used.

False witnesses

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15 (KJV)

There are a lot of anticreationists that are ex-Christians, or grew up in a Christian home but never became saved. They know the Christian lingo, and can fit into Christian groups by faking it. If they are in the covert operations group of the anticreationists, they will join a forum and either act as Christians, or be themselves (atheists) and act as though they had been converted (fake conversion) to knowing Christ. Their conversion is usually through using a mod or admin at the forum they have joined. It is never through a member. This is because their main goal is to become part of the ministry and hold a mod or an admin position. They have to become friends with the people who run the forum to do this, and how encouraged will the people feel that think they brought these people to know Christ? Admins should take to heart Paul's admonition that a new believer should not be made an elder; it applies in this field too.

This is their first step into becoming part of that Christian forum (wolves among sheep). When they get inside the forum they will start passing off information on how that forum works: any information on the mods and admins they can find. They will also pass off information on any of the other anticreationists that are being currently discussed. In this way their friends will know when to cool it during a debate and will be able to do their work of destroying that ministry without getting banned. At this point they become covert agents. They even have agent names and numbers they use when conversing with one another (reporting there inside information).

Their other goal with working from within is to get the rules even more relaxed about allowing evolution to be discussed. Debates between the anticreationist mole and the other mods and admins will go something like this: "How can we reach other evolutionists if we don't allow their view to be talked about more?" They will use their fake conversion, from evolutionist to a fake Christian, as the example to bring guilt among the mods and admins there. They will then try and pull strings to get more of their anticreationist friends aboard so that their views will have a much louder voice from within that ministry. They will try and get the ministry to compromise enough to say that theistic evolution is OK and raise theistic evolutionists to the status of mods.

Once they have established their stake in the ministry and have stopped the constant banning of other anticreationists from the forum, evolution itself does the rest of the work as each Christian member who is weak in the faith (baby Christians) has his faith tested and weakened even more. The forum soon becomes a hunting ground for both evolutionists and satanists as they convert people from being Christian right on a Christian forum. They may also invite them to another forum so they can convert without the original forum knowing about it.

Bad spelling/grammar

This is another often used anticreationist tactic. If the evolution vs creation debate is not going very well, they will start looking for other ways to publically humiliate the creationist they are debating on what ever forum or blog the debate is taking place on. The anticreationist will quote the creationist and use "sic" next to anything that is misspelled, or where they believe the grammar is bad. It is their attempt to gain control of a debate they are losing by distracting their debate opponent.

Stopping the Game

Basically, the reason why they can do what they do is because they are able to hide and get away with it. Every mod and admin should be made to give his real name, address, and phone number that can be confirmed by the owner of the forum. Having to expose themselves (private information) to the owner of the forum will deter them from wanting to become a mod or admin, because if they slip up, everyone will know who they are.

Also, make a mod and admin agreement that says that evolution cannot be promoted in any way shape or form by those who help run the forum. This will cut off them trying to work from within to relax the rules on promoting evolution, since if they break this agreement, they know they can be booted.

Make a newbie mod section that is separate from the other mod and admin sections. In this way the information that goes to the new mods can be filtered until the owner of the forum feels they are trustworthy enough to be allowed into the main mod section of the forum. This will keep them from passing on general information about how the forum works.

Most forum programs have a mod (third party mods) that can be installed where the head admin (owner of forum) can read the member's pm. If forum ministry decides to go this route, rules need to be made about whose pm you will look at and for what reasons. This is so that the system is not abused, and those who are not causing problems have privacy. You also need to block other members from seeing each others e-mail addresses. This way most communications between members is done through the pm system, which can be monitored if a suspect member joins and starts using tactics above.

If this mod is installed, it needs to be made known to the members of the forum. They need to know why it is there. If any member has someone bothering them in the pm section they should let the site owner know who it is. The mod is for their own protection.

How to stop trouble makers from signing up

If you already run a creation forum or blog. You will notice that 80-90% of all the trouble makers use e-mails that do not connect to their original ISP (internet service provider). In this way they cannot be tracked for the trouble they cause. You will also notice that more than 50% of the trouble makers use Google mail (gmail). So blocking gmail will get rid of most of your trouble makers (the anti-creationists). In your e-mail block, you type: *@gmail.com. The asterisk is a wild-card that makes the forum or blog block all new gmail sign ups. It will not bother those who are already signed up using gmail, only those who try and sign up using gmail.

This does not mean that gmail (Google mail) is bad or anything. It just means that gmail happens to be the anti-creationist choice to use for doing their deeds against God and all whom follow Him. It's suspect that it's because gmail has a way that makes it easy for them to stay in contact while making their plans to be disruptive.

External Links

Examples of anticreationist tactics

See Also