Talk:Evolution
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"Biological Evolution" vs. the "Theory of Evolution"
Is the distinction between biological evolution and the theory of evolution a widely-accepted distinction, or perhaps a distinction that CreationWiki is creating?
If the former, then I guess that it merits some mention. But if the latter, definitely not. I believe the following to be the case:
- Most of the time, evolutionists do not distinguish between the two in concept (let alone by terminology). That is, as far as evolutionists are concerned, the Theory of Evolution and Biological Evolution are one and the same thing.
- The same would be true for the general public
- Most of the time, simply the word "evolution" is used, without any qualifier. Thus although the word "evolution" has some legitimate uses ("change over time"), it has so much naturalistic baggage that it is far better to simply avoid using the word altogether (except, of course, in refutation).
- Creationists need to educate the public as to the difference between the naturalistic hypothesis of evolution and the creation model of variation within a kind. It is far better to do this by drawing a sharp difference between the two, and the favourable use by creationists of the word evolution (even if qualified as "biological evolution") is only going to cause confusion. As it is, anticreationists accuse of of accepting a limited form of evolution. This will only encourage that misunderstanding.
- I know of no major creationist organisation that uses "biological evolution" as defined in this article. Certainly Creation Ministries International and Answers in Genesis do not use the term, and specifically recommend against using the terms macroevolution and microevolution on these grounds, so I expect they would say the same about biological evolution.
Philip J. Rayment 02:57, 26 April 2006 (GMT)
Does nobody really dispute "biological evolution"?
The following comments come after I thought more about the comments in Talk:Felidae that were made a short time ago.
I had a disagreement with Philip Rayment before he left CreationWiki over another article, but I must say I support his comments above. This "Evolution" article says "creationism acknowledges that biological evolution is a true and scientific reality". It also says "creationism acknowledges that biological evolution is a true and scientific reality".
I think Philip is right in saying that no other creationist organization uses "biological evolution" as defined in this article. At least I can't find any.
I've searched the websites of AiG, ICR, CMI, CRS, and True Origins, and all I found was criticism of the term "biological evolution". I put some of AiG's and ICR's comments at Talk:Felidae. Here are others from the Creation Research Society and True Origins (in their refutations of Talk Origins):
- Jerry Bergman: "One of the most fascinating historical accounts about the fallout of biological evolution theory on human relations is the story of Ota Benga" -- Creation Research Society [1]
- "Once Naturalism is demonstrated formally invalid, empirical research can take its proper role of building science and exploring natural history within the default, superior Christian worldview. Some Intelligent Design advocates have initiated this argument with great effect against biological evolution, but they fall short because they fail to recognize uniformitarianism as foundational to modern Naturalism." Creation Research Society [2]
- True Origins response to Talk Origins:
- "On the other hand, simple 'order' such as that found in a snowflake or a crystal, for example, is exceedingly trivial, when compared to the increase in information, organization or complexity that would be required for either spontaneous generation (the beginning of biological evolution), or any form of progressive macro-evolution itself." [3]
- "While this explains how living organisms may grow and thrive, thanks in part to the earth’s 'open-system' biosphere, it does not offer any solution to the question of how life could spontaneously begin this process in the absence of the program directions and energy conversion mechanisms described above—nor how a simple living organism might produce the additional new program directions and alternative energy conversion mechanisms required in order for biological evolution to occur, producing the vast spectrum of biological variety and complexity observed by man." True Origins [4]
If none of the major creationist organizations accept the term biological evolution as CreationWiki defines it, including prominent creationists like Henry Morris, John Morris, Ken Ham, Jerry Bergman, etc., aren't we just muddying the waters? Certainly this CreationWiki article is not true in implying that all, or even most, creationists accept the term in any positive creationist sense. I would be genuinely interested to know which organizations say they support young-earth creation and also biological evolution.
Tim Talbot --Klang 01:51, 22 September 2006 (EDT)
