Talk:The 2nd law, and the trend to disorder, is universal (Talk.Origins)

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Re: "No creationist claims that the 2nd law makes order from disorder impossible, it is only claimed that order to disorder in the most natural trend."

Here's one such, from http://www.trueorigins.org/isakrbtl.asp (the site cited by talk.origins):

"It should be clear that the 2nd law of thermodynamics does indeed require that a natural process or system, left to itself, increases in entropy, or randomness, and therefore decreases in order"

According to this site a decrease in order is not just the most natural trend, it is required.

Thus there are creationists who make such claims, and the author of the talk.origins article is not employing a straw man argument. Roy

I wondered if Charles had worded it in the best way, but what I took him to be saying is that creationists don't claim that order from disorder is impossible, but that order to disorder is what naturally occurs except when there are the right circumstances (such as a mechanism) for the opposite to occur. The quote you supply says that a natural process increases in entroy if left to itself, which is meant to indicate the lack of a mechanism. In other words, your quote and what Charles said are compatible, even if one or both could have been worded differently to make that clearer.

By the way, do you realise that if you sign your talk posts with four tildes (~~~~), your username and the date and time are automatically included? Philip J. Rayment 01:27, 26 Nov 2004 (GMT)