Talk:Supernaturalism

I found 3 different essays on science and the supernatural in three different articles that said some of the same stuff and some different stuff. I think we'd do well to combine all three essays into one coherent description of the issue incorporating the strengths of all three. I first copies all three in under different subheadings. Now I'm going to try and combine them. If you see something of value being left out of the combined essay, please stick it back in:). Ungtss 02:51, 21 December 2005 (GMT)

I think perhaps we need a more subtle definition of "Supernatural."

I don't think that the supernatural is "beings, forces, and phenomena that cannot be perceived by natural or empirical senses." I think that Abraham saw the angels, that Moses saw the burning bush, that the Israelites saw the pillar of flame and the lightning from heaven by Elijah, that Mary saw herself become pregnant as a virgin.

I think supernatural phenomena are seen all the time. I've seen them myself.

Is there are a way to work both definitions into this article? Ungtss 21:15, 23 December 2005 (GMT)

A definition from M-W.com 2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)

From Dictionary.com: 1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world. 2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces. 3. Of or relating to a deity. 4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous. 5. Of or relating to the miraculous.

not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws; not physical or material; "supernatural forces and occurrences and beings" [ant: natural] n : supernatural forces and events and beings collectively; "She doesn't believe in the supernatural" [syn: occult] PrometheusX303 23:48, 7 January 2006 (GMT)

I believe Supernaturalism is not defined with any meaningful specificity. We should narrow the definition as to how the Bible relates supernaturalism.

Supernaturalism is the belief that two invisible supernatural beings control the universe, reality and life as we know it; the Biblical Deity and the license He allows to the adversary, Satan.

In addition, we need to take the mystery out of the word and give an example of supernaturalism in reality. That overwhelming example should be the undisputed appearance of design seen in nature; that design indicates the work of invisible supernatural power and not anything senselessly antithetic (blind and mindless natural selection).

In addition, we need to also define Supernaturalism as a worldview and philosophy which presupposes a Divine Being to be responsible for the production of physical reality; as opposed to Naturalism which presupposes reality to not be the work of a Divine Being.

I believe these suggestions bring a much abused word back down to Earth and they provide a sensible application to reality.

Ray Martinez 21:31, 7 March 2007 (EST)

I don't like the definition attributed to the supernatural here on the wiki because it makes it seem as if it is possible for us to perform these miracles ourselves(Genesis 3:5), I say we leave the supernatural as it is, untestable, unrepetable and not science.

-- RichardTTalk 01:38, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Joshlight

I have added some notes into this page to help separate the definition of supernatural from the discussion. The Bible does not differentiate between supernatural and natural - these are artificial secular definitions that we should not align with. There is "no such thing as supernatural" is a better position, and a somewhat more provocative discussion starter.