Bacterial flagella are irreducibly complex (Talk.Origins)

Claim CB200.1:

Bacterial flagella and eukaryotic cilia are irreducibly complex, Since non-functional intermediates cannot be preserved by natural selection, these systems can only be explained by intelligent design.

Source: Behe, Michael J. 1996. Darwin's Black Box, New York: The Free Press, pp. 59-73.

CreationWiki response:

This just shows that Talk.Origins does not understand the problem. This is not about developing the proteins or even getting the exact flagellum used by bacteria but getting a minimal functional bacterial flagellum. To do that requires not only getting all the right proteins, but getting them all in the right configuration to work together as a flagellum.

Creating a plausible sounding scenario for a totally impossible event is a mark of good science fiction not good science.

The most obvious flaw in Talk.Origins' suggestion is the reference to an ion pump complex, since they do nothing to explain its origin; they just assume that it is there, already fully functional. The other obvious problem is the vagueness of their scenario. It conveniently lacks any details that could be used actually to test the theory.

Behe's definition of irreducibly complex reads

When talking about the removal of "any one of the parts", Behe is talking specifically about the well-matched, interacting ones that contribute to the basic function. If X is an irreducibly complex process, adding Y to improve it does not make the result not irreducibly complex. It just means that Y is not part of the basic function.

To contradict Behe's argument would require that the other flagella operate on the same principles as the one Behe describes as well as lacking some of the proteins that Behe describes as part of what is irreducibly complex.
 * 1) Being able to lose a part does not make something not irreducibly complex.  See the above definition.
 * 2) If losing a part of an irreducibly complex assembly changes its function, it would still be classified as irreducibly complex.
 * 3) The existence of flagella that lack some of the proteins or other parts is irrelevant if the missing items are not part of what is irreducibly complex.
 * 4) When examining one particular flagellum, it is irrelevant that other flagella exist that lack some of the proteins or other parts that are part of what is considered irreducibly complex in the instant subject, if those other flagella operate with a different basic mechanism.

While it is true that all three have the same basic function, that being to produce motion in water, the different designs provide different levels of manoeuvrability and speed; as a result their functions are not exactly the same.